Chinese Weapons

[Glen K]

OK, here is my horrifically simple understanding of Communist infantry small arms during Korea, so someone please chop it apart and tell me how right/wrong I am....

In the first days of the war, the North Koreans are armed with a lot of leftover Japanese stuff, like Type 99 rifles, and some Soviet and Russian made stuff, like M91/38 and M44 Mosin Nagants. The Chinese are armed similarly, though with more M44s and some PPSh 41s. As the war goes on, PPSh 41s seem to become much more prevalent, second only to the Moisin Nagant M44 still, though more of Chinese manufacture than Soviet.

Close?

[Woodard]

North Koreans were armed better than Chinese at first. The North Korean Army had been custom built by Soviet advisers and fully equipped with the latest Soviet weapons, DP-28's, M91/30's, M44's, PPSh's, even SKS's. During the first few months of the war American 2.75 Bazookas failed to stop North Korean T34/85 tanks. Some units ran for their lives, I remember a US Army Master Sgt who stopped one by climbing on top of it and pouring gas from an attached Jerry can over the engine compartment until the thing exploded. He received the Medal of Honor, Posthumously.
Chinese, on the other hand, had a huge hodge podge of weapons, Japanese, Czech (purchased before WW2 on the open market), MG-34's, and American weapons. The US equipped several divisions of Nationalists, and all most all that gear ended up with the commies (whole divisions defected completely intact). The Chinese manufactured Mauser rifles and pistols, and one arsenal even made M1927 Thompsons. Most units would try and standardize on either US, German/Czech, or Japanese weapons for logistical reasons.
At first the soviets did not really help them that much, but by the end of 1951 they were selling the Chinese small arms and artillery, and units would trade out their old stuff for Soviet gear before crossing the Yalu. During the Winter of 50/51 they captured huge numbers of US equipment that they promptly put to good use.

[Glen K]

So a Soviet M44 sounds like it would be a good generic weapon... fortunately, they're cheap!

[Woodard]

M44 is good for North Korean any time, or Chinese later on. The Chinese sniper Zhang TaoFang allegedly used one to shoot 214 Americans in 32 days (hmm... must have been shooting from that fortified book depository bldg...).
www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/PrincipalWeapons.htm is a pretty good site for small arms info.

[foxholetom]

The 45th Infantry Division Museum in Oklahoma City has a PPSH41 captured by the 45th, serial number in the 600s. It is to represent the very first Chinese made PPSH41 (serial #1) also captured by the division, but turned over to higher Army command. This was captured in 1952 I believe.

[Woodard]

I'd say the PPSh would be the best weapon for Chinese. Most veterans would probably associate that the most with Chinese. I remember doing a Korea living history and setting one of my Mauser C96 pistols out. Several people asked why I had put that out, but later a veteran came by and said something along the lines of "oh yea, we used to see those all the time". That was pretty neat.

[foxholetom]

How cheaply can you get a dummy PPSh? I'd like to have one as a captured weapon in the commo shack. And a story about how we hooked up the line doggies with something in return for the weapon.

[Glen K]

They're getting harder to come by; the last one I saw for sale went for $350. Sportsmans Guide still has the parts kits (I think they're even on sale right now), but you'd have to find/make a dummy reciever and assmble it.

[Woodard]

My advice would be to try and find a reenactor who bought one a few years ago and is willing to part with it. I've seen "cap firing" ones, but they are almost as expensive as the semi auto ones.

[foxholetom]

$350 isn't toooo bad.

[Woodard]

I'd like to get an SBR semi one, but that's about a grand or so. I think a functioning automobile may be a better decision.

[foxholetom]

Yes, cars are good. Then you can come to more events.

Also, semi-auto DP28s for $2500. I'd love that.

[Woodard]

I was all exited about the Pistol PPS, but I heard they suck. Bummer.

[pop401k]

Greeting Comrades!

I've reenacted about all factions of WWII except Brit...but here's my question; What would be the prescribed rifle for "us"?? I've got mausers, and Nagants and Japanese 38 and 99. I'd like to avoid buying yet another for use in reenacting if I can avoid it. I see the M-44 Nagant discussed, but what about other weapons? I own an M-38...

How about SKS rifles??? They've got the firepower we need to counteract the US Imperialists, but are they correct for our use? I sure hope they are ;o)

[foxholetom]

We're still figuring out the SKS. David Hackworth mentions having one as a souveneir in 1950/51, and then ditching it. However, I've never seen a photo, not that I use photos solely as a standard.

Arisakas were known to be used during the war. Bren I think will be able to give the most definitive answer as far as the event goes.

[pop401k]

How about a semi-auto Ppsh 43 (the folding stock/all metal job)? Somebody is making them for around $695.- IIRC They're 7.62x25 I'll see if I can't locate the website for posting.

[foxholetom]

If you can find the source for that...at $700, I'm down. What about barrel length though?

[Woodard]

These are registered as pistols, the stocks are fixed closed and can't be extended, but the barrel length is good. I believe www.valkyriearms.com is also making thier farby grease guns like this now as well. I personally would rather have this arrangement than a long barrel. One of the Russian guys we see at events has one of the PPS's, he had a rough time getting it to run at first, but said it does fine now that he got the right blank/BFA combnation. I've ordered from this company, they had the local gun store on file so I just called, told them what I wanted and gave my credit card #. About a week later I picked up a shiny new AKS-74 at the local gun shop. God bless America.

www.militarygunsupply.com/shop2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_15&products_id=132

[pop401k]

Yep, that's it... Military Gun Supply. Thanks!!

[foxholetom]

I just read some good info in the book "Disaster in Korea" by Roy Appleman, regarding Chinese weaponry, specifically in the 66th Army. I'll write up a more full synopsis tomorrow, but simply put, a Chinese captain was captured around November 24th and gave tons of information on Chinese units. He reported a lot of captured American weaponry left over from the Nationalists.