Repro M43 Pile liner

[foxholetom]

Yes, I'd imagine it would be more as well.

[Chicommie]

Brothers in the hobby,
At the Front has repro M43 Liners...and they are selling them
for $60.00 and they look pretty good...I'm not a G.I. clothing expert and the only minor critique I heard a few give was that the fur or pile lining was actually 'too nice' compared to originals, but people were buying them up like crazy at the GAP/FIG event. I managed to buy one when they received a new shipment! The price is fantastic too...I guess I should take a photo for you...I'll post it on the Korean War Yahoo Group I can't seem to get pic's to post on here.
Patrick Hubble

[Chicommie]

I posted some photo's of the repro M43 Liner that At The
Front sells...it's on the Korean War Yahoo Group I started,
here's the addy if you need it:

groups.yahoo.com/group/KoreanWarReenactors/

I'm wearing my kit as well;
M1 helmet (WWII)
M43 Liner
M45 suspenders
M43 pants
OD/late WWII Garand belt, first aid, & triple grenade pouch
Russet Combat boots (Korean War dated)
I also threw on my pattern 1947 Overcoat/Parka & MQ-1 hat
in a second photo to show off my new sexy parka!
Patrick Hubble

[sdfoster]

An update for everyone - At The Front only has a limited amount of these at present. They are not even listed on the website yet. They received a small shipment last week before leaving for FIG, but the full shipment is not expected until March.
This is what I was told today when I called them to inquire.

[foxholetom]

This is EXCELLENT news.

This is one of the key pieces of winter clothing for the Korean War, and is now available to anyone who wants one, instead of hunting down an original.

[foxholetom]

Also, on the note of being "too nice", my research into pile items in general is that it was impossible to launder them, and they got progressively "nastier" as they were used (hence why they stopped using it for the most part by the end of Korea.

With that in mind, I'm not surprised if a brand new repro looks nicer than originals, unless the experts out there have handled a dead stock mint original.

I have a dead stock MQ1 pile cap, and the pile is pretty darn nice.

[sdfoster]

The original Rollin at At The Front used to copy was mine - I sold it to him last February at the Louisville show. He told me he was wanting to make repros of them. I thought he was crazy, but now I am glad I was proven wrong!

The one I sold him was an original size 40. It was slightly used, but not excessively so. No fraying and minimal staining. Not dead stock mint, but he had a good one to use to copy, I can vouch for that.

So of course I had to buy a repro. It should be in my hands on Monday or Tuesday.

EDIT: I no longer believe Rollin used my original to make the copy, it appears he wanted to copy them but found the other already existing source that also makes them for Soldier of Fortune.

[Woodard]

Well, if anyone asks I'll tell them it's modeled off of the "Foster" jacket.

[foxholetom]

While cool, that's not *quite* how that works. You have to know the providence of the original as far as the soldier who wore it.

Like, if you copied my tanker jacket, you could call it the "Val Schomer" jacket, but not the Salemi jacket.

[Woodard]

I know, but "Foster" jacket is cooler. Cool, I just realized his kids are Foster children.

[jonprince]

::)Hmmm, that ATF repro does look very good, hard to see exactly though, maybe a little heavier than the other repro., but that could be whatever you have on under it bulking it out. Collar and cuffs seems to be a little weird (yes, I do own a mint unissued original amongst others) and the design seems to be like the other copy, could they be just the same jacket available direct for you lads in the U.S. perhaps, still good usable bit of kit and much better price, infact it may even be worth me buying from the US and paying shipping to the U.K. rather than going to the British rip-off merchant, but that's SOF all over!

[sdfoster]

Yes, I have heard their nickname is "Cost a Fortune"

I hope to offer a semi-educated review next week. I can compare the ATF repro to my other original. The two I had were almost identical apart from the size.

[sdfoster]

OK, here is my review of the At The Front repro M43 jacket liner.

I received my repro pile liner today, and decided to take some photos and share my opinions on the garment. I have compared it to an original in my collection which is a size 44R. The repro I purchased is a size L which is supposed to fit the 42-46 size range.

img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43a.jpg

At first glance, the repro compares very favorably to an original in terms of coloration and general appearance. The materials used in the repro are very similar to the original.

OUTER SHELL:
The outer shell is made of OD cotton poplin and is as close to the original as I think anyone can reasonably expect. One difference I did notice is the seams are top-stitched, which is different from my original which has the seams pressed open. The seam on the original is smoother on the surface:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43f.jpg
The pockets are placed correctly, and have the right appearance although the repro pockets are slightly larger than the original. The repro pockets are also deeper on the inside.
There is no manufacturer's size/contract label in the pocket of the repro as there is in my original.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43h.jpg

CUFFS:
The cuffs are wool knit, and are similar to the original. They appear longer in length than the original, but when stretched out, the original cuff is almost the same length as the repro:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43c.jpg

COLLAR:
One aspect which I am not pleased with is the collar. The original has the knit tapering down on the front edges, but the repro has a boxy squared-off shape to it. This is bulkier when being worn with the collar closed, and personally I find it less comfortable than the original:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43e.jpg

Buttons and Button Cords/Loops:
The repro buttons are larger versions of the buttons used on the repro M43 field jacket. The cord loops are less dense than the originals, and instead of being sewn with a gap between the beginning and end of the loop, the two ends are next to each other. This can make buttoning and unbuttoning the garment more complicated than on an original. It also makes the center button front of the jacket slightly more off-center than usual.
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43b.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43g.jpg

PILE INTERIOR:
The pile is quite impressive - I did not expect anyone to make a repro of this garment on account of the pile lining itself. The original pile fibers are more stiff, and more dense than the repro. The repro pile is soft and comfortable, and quite warm!
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43d.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43i.jpg

The repro I purchased is what I would consider to be about a 46L if compared to the original 44R. The repro one does have more length in the body and sleeves to accomodate taller re-enactors. I am 6'3" and I found the repro pile liner to be an ideal length for me. I did try the At The Front repro M43 field jacket over the liner (also size L) and it did fit over the liner. The bottom edge of the liner was in almost the same place as the bottom edge of the field jacket. I am not sure if the originals fit this way, but I suspect the original liners were a little shorter.

In general, I am pleased with the liner, however I am going to get a seamstress to amend a few details on my repro, namely the buttons, button loops, and collar. I may even have a few inches taken out of the garment width for personal comfort and a better, more issued fit.

[foxholetom]

It looks good on the whole, but the collar is a little strange. Perhaps their factory overseas got confused and thought it should have the same collar as a winter combat jacket?

[sdfoster]

foxholetom said:

It looks good on the whole, but the collar is a little strange. Perhaps their factory overseas got confused and thought it should have the same collar as a winter combat jacket?

That sounds like a reasonable explaination to me.

I honestly think that once I have changed the collar and the button loops, it will make the greatest difference in the appearance. We will see how that goes. At least I will be talking to a seamstress who is fluent in English, so there should not be any problem with details getting mixed up in foreign translation. I am sure that is a huge factor. Seeing as how the ATF M43 field jacket still has the collar flap sewn entirely through the lapel (every original I noticed has this sewn only on the back face of the lapel so the stitching is not visible when the collar is worn open), even though they told me it was going to be corrected after the initial batch which I ordered from - I do not anticipate them making corrective changes in the production of the pile liner.

[jonprince]

Thanks for the review, I am 99.99% sure that the ATF repro. is the same as the UK/European dealers are selling, every detail of the repro. matches the repros I've handled over here in the U.K. and Europe. At least you lads have a cheaper/easier source for these than dealing Internationally now. I assume ATF either commisioned these and they got 'leaked' by the manufacturer like some previous products or he's just buying them in and claiming their his own special dandy ATF made reproduction, though if so I find it strange that I saw them over here nearly 6 months ago!?

Hadn't noticed the button loops, good spot! That and the alterations to collar and cuffs and I think we'll be in business! I do still wonder why someone went to the trouble of reproing these things, though I am very pleased they did! ;D Maybe pile caps next, or if you really want to make me happy, Marine Corps Parkas!

[sdfoster]

OK, the conversion is complete and here are pictures of the modified liner details:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43j.jpg
img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/repros/m43k.jpg

The conversion of the liner went well, but changing the loops was more complicated than expected.
The collar was easy enough to fix - remove it from the ends of the collar (it can stay stitched at the back from the shoulder seam) and re-sew in the proper profile.
While the front edges of the collar were open, the button loops were amended. This was the complicated part. The old loops are sewn in very well, and are not easy to remove with a seam ripper. On my liner, we cut out the last half inch of the edge with the button loops. I found a similar OD cord to re-make the button loops - the ones on the repro were going to be damaged too much by the time I worked them free. The jacket had to be halfway turned inside-out to sew in the new loops - and I recommend this only be done by an experienced seamstress/tailor. In the end, it was worth the effort for me but I believe most people will be content to change only the collar, and leave the button loops alone. Changing the button loops did require the jacket to become slightly smaller in the chest dimension, so if you plan on doing this be sure to account for the change in size when you order. I ordered a Large, and I am a 42-43 chest. After losing a few inches in the garment due to the conversion, it fits perfectly (it was a little large for me before the conversion).

[jonprince]

Outstanding job, I thought it would make a big difference and it does! I still don't understand though how they did things wrong if they copied an original, unless the original had these same features or they were just trying to cut corners. Has anyone seen cuffs, collar and button loops like that on any originals? The mods make it look 1000 times better though, a definate blessing for Korean War reenactment. Just for information, your about the same chest size as me, how many layers and of what were you wearing under it after conversion? I can get an idea of what size to go for.

[sdfoster]

This weekend at the event, I wore it over a T-shirt and wool shirt. I think a sweater would have fit under it as well, especially before I took a little out of the front of the liner.

I do have to say it was a very comfortable garment at the event. The only thing that was not ideal was the way the field jacket fit over the liner. It worked, but it was a little tricky getting the jacket off.

[etooloperator]

@foster:

Apparently, the after-market work you had done on your pile liner was good enough to fool me into thinking you were wearing your original at the event...



Great job.