Army Medics in Korea

[foxholetom]

Simple question really....did medics carry weapons in Korea? I know that by Vietnam they did, and they certainly do today. Did this start during Korea, or after?

[Glen K]

My understanding is that during WWII medics in the ETO tended to not carry weapons, whereas after the first year of war or so medics in the Pacific tended to carry at least a pistol, sometimes a carbine.

[Woodard]

"Article 22. The following conditions shall not be considered as depriving a medical unit or establishment of the protection guaranteed by Article 19:

* (1) That the personnel of the unit or establishment are armed, and that they use the arms in their own defence, or in that of the wounded and sick in their charge."

From the 1949 Geneva convention (http://www.hrweb.org/legal/geneva1.html#Article%2019). Yes, I know it was ignored in the PTO and Vietnam and Iraq. Each enemy treats medics differently, and I don't think I've ever seen a picture of an armed medic in Korea. I'll check my sources though, I could be wrong. It's so hard to find medical Information that isn't about MASH units...

[foxholetom]

That's been my same problem. Supposedly there is an Army publication on Medics in Korea, haven't found a copy yet.

[Woodard]

I'll see what I can find. Working at a library, I can usually have things sent as long as they aren't too rare. If you could find me the name it should be easy, if not I'll see what I can do.

PS. I checked the ECU Library website, they have a fair number of books on Korea. I work at UNCW library and we allow the public to buy a card that allows them to check out books. You might want to call and see if they let the public use their library.

[foxholetom]

My girlfriend is enrolled at ECU, so I can get her to check them out if nothing else. I've actually seen their section on Korea, but haven't been able to run to the campus lately. I'll let you guys know if I find anything juicy.

[Woodard]

I checked at work, I found this in "US Army in the Korean War: The Medics' War"

~ "After Chochiwon, Duerk's Medics painted out the emblem on their equipment and carried M-1 rifles" (p.75)

Found a lot of references and pics of shot up ambulances and medics covering the red crosses up. Seems they made tempting targets for the bad guys. I had assumed that the Chinese and North Koreans were not familiar with the red cross emblem, but I found a picture of a captured North Korean nurse who appears to be wearing a red cross on her arm.

When you do get to the campus library, make sure to ask about the Government Documents section, ours has a lot of the official US Army publications.

[foxholetom]

Will do. Thanks for the info, that's pretty solid information to go off of. Chociwon was July 1950 (did a quick google), so that was a common practice from the early days of the war.

[Woodard]

The only picture I could find of an actual combat medic, most pics seem to be of stretcher bearers. No visible weapon, but notice that he has no visible Red cross insignia either. He's got a Vietnam style M-3 bag, but I can't see any other equipment. Interestingly enough, the Chinese soldier looks like he has on a US HBT shirt over his winter jacket.

[foxholetom]

Woodward, thanks for the info. That more or less solves it.

[Woodard]

One more for ya! I found this one looking thru a Center for Military History book on Korea while I was eating lunch.This 1951 Pic definitely shows two guys with Medical bags and carbines.

[foxholetom]

Which book was that from? I have three of the CMH "black" books.

[Woodard]

This was a paperback, titled "Korea, 1951-1953" by John Miller, jr., Owen J. Carroll, and Margaret E. Tackley, (CMH, GPO, 1997). There is a black CMH book entitled "The Medics War", mostly deals with MASH units and stuff but may be worth your time if you can find a copy.

[foxholetom]

I've tried looking on e-bay for "The Medic's War", and haven't had any luck. I'll keep looking for both the titles you posted.

[Woodard]

You said your Girlfriend is a student at ECU? Have her go to the library and ask about Interlibrary loan. She (you) can search for books from libraries all over the country and have them sent to her (again, you) from home. Best part is, it's free (unless you count her tuition).

[Nick]

foxholetom said:

Simple question really....did medics carry weapons in Korea? I know that by Vietnam they did, and they certainly do today. Did this start during Korea, or after?

In Korea we still followed the Geneva Conv. and didn't have armed Medics with the exceptions of .45s

[foxholetom]

I forgot about this thread.

I read something fairly recently about the North Koreans shooting up ambulances in the early days of the war, and this was when the medical personnel painted over their red crosses.

[Woodard]

I'm gonna have to disagree with Nick on this one, every pic I have of Medics or Corpsmen they have carbines.
Chinese also shot up ambulances, but were kindof inconsistent in thier treatment of wounded. I personally think they may just have not been familiar with the red cross emblem, I don't remember seeing any when I was there a year or two ago. May have been a green cross, I can't remember now.

[etooloperator]

Dec 8, 2007 20:53:47 GMT -5 @Nick said:

foxholetom said:

Simple question really....did medics carry weapons in Korea? I know that by Vietnam they did, and they certainly do today. Did this start during Korea, or after?

In Korea we still followed the Geneva Conv. and didn't have armed Medics with the exceptions of .45s

@ Nick:

Blatantly incorrect statement.

Here are some recollections from George Hubbard, who was a medic attached to an ambulance co. as part of the 25th Division. Apparently, at times, he carried a carbine and a grease gun.

"We had some snipers one time. They would hide beside the road and when a vehicle came by, going slowly (mostly at night, because we couldn’t use lights,) they would shoot them. Our ambulances were easy targets because we ran at night or anytime. My ambulance didn’t have doors. I carried a grease gun (a fully automatic 45 caliber, fed with a 15 round magazine under the bottom). I drove with my left hand on the steering wheel and the grease gun lying across my lap with the barrel pointing out the side of the door, and my right hand on the gun with my finger on the trigger. At the least little noise, I squeezed the trigger. I probably killed a thousand rats or rabbits, but I didn’t take any chances. I shot every noise I heard."

Another from Hubbard:

"I went to the front and picked up a prisoner. He was a young Chinese boy who had seven bullet holes in his chest and stomach. We loaded him, Cox drove, and I was in the back with him. I lit a cigarette and bent over him to put it in his mouth, as we usually did our wounded. I had a carbine strapped over my shoulder. He grabbed my gun and tried to take it. I just shoved the butt of the gun in his face, knocking him back down."

Lastly:

"But when I got to Korea, I found out that the ch**ks did not go by the Geneva Convention** and they would shoot the medics first, then start picking off the rest of a patrol. This demoralized the infantry because they knew that if they had a medic, they probably would make it back unless they were killed on the spot. So we carried guns and would use them if we had a chance. We did not wear armbands or have a cross on our helmet because the chinks used them for targets."

His accounts can be found here: www.koreanwar-educator.org/memoirs/hubbard/index.htm

This is one man's account, but I have read many more.

[chancellorstevens]

I know several fellows who served in Korea as non-combatants, and were trained as medics and sent to the front. They didn't carry firearms (and neither did the others from my church from ww1 through 1973 when the draft ended. This one man once had to escort two Korean POW's alone in a jeep unarmed through mortar fire and a river (Quite the story!) From what ive been told medics could or couldnt. They had a choice. I just dont think they were relied upon to be part of a fire team. By the way, how were they equipped as far as medical supplies (similar te the ww2 pouch system perhaps?)