Farby/ Non-Farby

[Woodard]

For a late Korea impression:

M4 Carbine bayonet (for M-1/2 Carbine, not M4 carbine) w/ Black plastic handles: I see these listed as being Korean war, but I wanted to double check. I need a new bayonet and the leather handle ones are twice as much.

Trousers, Cold Weather, Cotton and Nylon, Wind resistant sateen Olive Green, Army shade 107: These are the pants that come with the M-65 jacket, they are very close to a 63 dated pair I have. Didn't know if they had changed them when they changed the field jacket. I know the buttons are wrong, and I don't care too much about the suspender buttons or loops or anything.

Vietnam style poncho: not the super lightweight, but the decent thickness one.

[jonprince]

Excellent site on US Bayonets, M4 plastic grip articles on pages 3 + 4:

www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayonet_points.htm

Pants would be different for M65 suits I think, though even original M1951 pants are pushing it for Korea unless your portraying soemthing fairly late. Best bet are repro or original M43 pants or original M1951's as long as your not after Extra large/Long, even if you are then as long as you don't mind spending some cash their still out there.

Poncho would be early hoodless type in rubberised cotton or one of it's ealry post-war varients.

[foxholetom]

That brings up a good point...when did U.S. ponchos get a hood?

On the field pants, my two cents. I have M1965 field trousers, and they are very similar from early 1960s M1951 trousers. They are however, quite a bit different from Korean War production m1951 trousers. The M1951 trousers and jacket accumulated a series of slow but progressive modifications to the pattern until they decided to rename it. By the 1960s the material is definitely different.

Sizing on Korean War made M1951 stuff is VERY annoying. The field trousers are "medium regular", with a waist size of 31-35. I have a 32 inch waist, so that means they are quite big on me. This is also because of the intention to have trouser liners and/or wool trousers underneath.

Also something VERY interesting. Omahas has WW2 dated M1943 trousers that were depot modified into M1951 trousers during Korea. They added cargo pockets, the attachment points for the liner, the side adjustment tabs, and the bands for attaching suspenders. They even placed a tag over the original M1943 tags, which are still present underneath, and the original maker tags are present with the appropriate 1945 dates.

I would agree with you about them being fairly late...but our group portrays a unit in the winter of 52/53 and the spring of 53.

[Woodard]

Stanton says Ponchos got the hood in 1951 If I recall. I'll check when I get home. As for the M51 pants, I'm trying to think of ways to make us not look like WW2 guys. I know that a late WW2 impression with an M45 pack is a Korea impression, but I want to find ways to look later. I was even thinking of going to the halloween shop and getting some black "Drew Carey/Austin Powers" glasses to wear.

[John Abshire]

Yea I showed Tom my m1951 trousers that are converted from 43s, which I converted back to 43s...and now of course I wish I didnt...so I ordered another pair just for Korea.

What I want to know is, where I can find a damn 51 or 50 jacket in size fatboy...or a fishtail parka that dosent go for 180 bucks to Pierre Escargot...

[Woodard]

You know the 50 jacket is almost the same as a M-43, right? Just has buttons on the inside for a button in liner. Seems like they're a little greener in color, but not much.

[John Abshire]

Well I know that now...lol thanks I thought it had the zipper like the 51 jacket...doh

[Woodard]

It's like the exact same. You can kinda see the thread where the buttons are, but you have to be really paying attention. I'm sure they probably took M-43's and sewed buttons in them.

OK, now who can tell me about Korean War Overshoes? I know Stanton mentions a Overshoe, High, 5 buckle, rubber and some other kind of five buckle overshoe made of rubber. Basically I'm wearing a pair of rubber 5 buckle rubber overshoes and I want to know if they're cool for Korea. I know they were mainly for non-combat types, but I'm still curious.

[foxholetom]

I would disagree on the M1943 versus M1950 thing. The color is definitely different, and the pockets are shaped a bit different on the M1950 jackets.

I believe rubber overshoes came back in for Korea. I'm more curious if the canvas ones leftover from WW2 would be okay. Looking at other footwear, my gut feeling would be yes.

[tar00]

Weren't shoepacs still pretty prevalent though too?

[foxholetom]

Shoepacs were heavily used during the the winter months. Both WW2 surplus and newer production.

[Woodard]

In theory, Shoepacks were for front line units and overshoes were a rear area thing. Most all the pics of combat troops in winter (that I see) they have shoepacks, and occasionally Mickey Mouse boots.

[foxholetom]

That's another thing...I know Mickey Mouse boots were in use at least as late as the 1990s, but I don't know the difference between Korean War Mickey Mouse boots, and later production (1960s and later).

[Woodard]

That'd be a tough one to figure out... National archives (good luck) or looking at labels in existing pairs (again, good luck).

[foxholetom]

By the way, take a look at this link.

www.bob-west.com/BDNPW/1DN9.JPG

The main page says its Dec. 1952, and those are most definitely M1951 wool shirts, being worn by members of the 224th infantry, 40th Division. So while certainly they didn't reach Korea in wide numbers, they WERE issued, contrary to what it says in the Stanton book. My purchases were not in vain...

[tar00]

there were a lot of other pictures on that site with them. interesting.

[foxholetom]

I thought so too.

The only thing to bear in mind with that website, and this took me a little while to quite wrap my brain around. Each individual photo page is all from the same vet. So I was going "oh, another of this, and another, and...oh, its the same guy!"

Also, it conclusively proves that M1952A flak vests were in Korea by the end of 1952, albeit in small numbers.

[Woodard]

I noticed Stanton seems to do the same thing with the M1948 full size boots. He says they weren't issued except in small numbers, but I see a decent amount of pictures of them.

[foxholetom]

I saw that too! Just looking at the 40th website, I see a lot of soldiers wearing them, same for the Stanton book.

Myself and another guy will both be wearing the russet combat boot at the event this weekend. On the whole, we should have a good representation of what was worn.

[Woodard]

How close is the russet combat boot to the WW2 paratrooper boot? I understand something about the heel is slightly different...