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Post by etooloperator on Feb 20, 2008 20:39:50 GMT -5
This is a bit of a "different" question about HBT uniforms, but I'm simply going to throw it out for more educated individuals here to chew on...
If I am putting together a generic KW US 8th army impression -- anywhere from 1950 to 1953 -- is it acceptable to use the WWII pattern repro HBT sets offered by the "major" vendors (ATF, WWII Impressions, etc.)?
On p.86 of Shelby Stanton's uniform book, the author insists that the WWII style of HBT uniform (OD#7, 13 star buttons) was issued concurrently with postwar altered versions, but he doesn't give a time period as to when or if the WWII pattern HBTs were phased out.
Any insight on this? I am well aware of the fact that, as the war progressed, the HBT "work uniform" generally became "dressy" (SSIs, chevrons, name tapes, etc.) and that the tunics were worn tucked in. What I can't ascertain from the pics in Stanton's book is the "pattern" of HBT uniform most acceptable for myself or anyone to use in any army impression. As many of you know, finding original KW HBT stuff on eBay is very difficult.
I usually prefer to buy and wear original stuff in the field, but this is a prime example of a situation where using repro stuff looks like my best option.
For those who have HBT uniform impressions, what are you all using -- and who makes the best reproduction?
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Post by steven on Feb 21, 2008 2:29:47 GMT -5
I am very interested on any info in this area myself.
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Post by sdfoster on Feb 21, 2008 21:38:06 GMT -5
I've seen several original WWII type HBT jackets with the gold & black "US ARMY" tapes and black on white name tapes on them. Based on this, I believe some of them stayed in use for a while, even into the era of the name tapes.
Looking in Shelby Stanton's book on uniforms of the Korean War, I would also say the WWII style HBT fatigues were used extensively in Korea. I have a repro set I plan on using.
As to the makers, I have owned and seen uniforms from At The Front, What Price Glory, and WWII Impressions. Each have their merits but my opinion on them is that they are about par from one to another. One may have better fabric and another has a better patterning and another still has the best color (for example). But also bear in mind it has been a few years since I saw some of these repros, and batches are known to change.
My What Price Glory set has trouser legs that are cut very full. Some other friends who bought sets from there had them tailored to take out some of the fullness.
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stu
Corporal 
Posts: 36 
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Post by stu on Feb 21, 2008 21:41:25 GMT -5
My dad used a WWII era HBT shirt with gasflap while stationed in Thailand in 1967.
Those things stuck around...
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Post by foxholetom on Feb 21, 2008 22:35:15 GMT -5
I concur with what Sean posted.
Hal Moore in his book "We Were Soldiers Once...and Young" says that he and SGT Major Plumely both wore WW2/Korean War era HBT uniforms at the Battle of LZ X-Ray in the fall of 1965.
Simple answer is that any and all are acceptable. I have personally seen a WW2 era 1st pattern (with the small pleated pockets and the light color) HBT fatigue coat with black and gold U.S. Army tapes, which places it in use post 1953.
The two most common types in use are the WW2 fatigues with the big cargo pockets, and the 1947 pattern HBT fatigues (with small patch pockets), which are the same pattern as the OG107 cotton fatigues.
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Post by sdfoster on Feb 22, 2008 8:48:59 GMT -5
I was giving some thought this morning to the different repros sold by various vendors, and thought I would post some comments that may be helpful. I have also made note of the date I observed these items, and this is something to consider as things tend to vary over time as different batches often have variations from one to another.
At The Front (aka ATF):
The first set of repro HBTs I bought was from At The Front in 2002. These were US made, and according to the website they are still making these, although they will be sold out until May.
The repros were of good color, pattern, and general authenticity was good. The fabric did not seem as dense and stiff as originals, but a lot of that is due to the way cotton fabric is woven now as opposed to in the 1940's (back then they had to use stiff starch on the warp yarns to strengthen the material as it went through the rugged weaving machinery). Modern weaving machinery does not require the starch (called 'sizing') on the warp yarns, so the resultant fabric is more flexible and feels less 'dense'. I was generally pleased with the repros I had from them, but I sold them to get a set from WPG.
What Price Glory (aka WPG):
I bought a set from What Price Glory because I am tall, and the ATF repros were not sized for tall people. I got a 42L jacket and it arrived and fit like an issued fit (in my opinion). The color was good, and the patterning was also good with one exception. The trouser legs are cut very full. It is not as noticeable when these are tucked into boots or leggings, but when the cuffs are rolled up you can tell the difference. The fabric was also softer and less dense than the originals. I bought this uniform in 2003 and have been pleased with it since. One of the knees blew out last September when I landed on crushed oyster shells.
WWII Impressions (aka WWII IMP):
WWII Imp offers HBTs in either light or dark shade. In 2003 or 2004, a friend was wearing some of the 'light shade' HBTs from them and in my opinion, it was much too light. The dark shade is much better in my opinion.
Patterning seems good, and I think the fabric is durable. I have not owned any Army HBTs from WWII IMP, but I did buy some USMC HBTs from them in late 2006 and the fabric was indeed very durable. I can't honestly comment any more than this.
Some other repros have come from places like STURM. I've not owned any so I cannot comment there. "Hong Kong Keith" was offering these for a time if I recall correctly, but recently I think he is not doing much business. I haven't bought from him, so I can't really say anything about his product or service, just offering that he does or did make these as well.
I hope this is helpful.
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Post by etooloperator on Feb 22, 2008 9:01:39 GMT -5
Very. I have had a set of ATF HBTs (sold them a couple of years ago) and generally liked them. I DO NOT like their Marine utilities (WWII Impressions are light years ahead there, but that's another matter), but I would buy a set of Army HBTs from them again. Thanks for your reviews. |
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Post by foxholetom on Feb 22, 2008 15:10:12 GMT -5
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Post by savoy6 on Mar 10, 2008 15:03:59 GMT -5
most items like these were in the the supply system on an "issue until exhausted" basis.there were just soooo many sets made through the end of WW2 and up until '47 that went to so many different parts of the world that they were findable until the mid vietnam era.also alot of older NCO's wanted them to differentiate themselves as "old school"....kinda like guys keeping the brown concorans as long as possible.
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Post by tar00 on Mar 12, 2008 0:25:08 GMT -5
Having confronted this question before and looked at mountains of pictures my honest assessment would be that WWII pattern HBTs are a BETTER choice than 47s. Tons were left over, and I personnally own several sets of WWIIs with late 50s, early 60s insignia.
My one piece of advice if you are new to HBTs is to buy at least one, maybe two jacket sizes small. I wear a size 40 and ended up going with a 36 which is baggy enough. Bear in mind that especially after the front stabilized and the garrison mentality set in it was common to tailor uniforms and draw several sizes too small. You see some interesting things done to HBTs to make them look good - pockets cut down and pleated, sleeve pockets added, cuffs, tapers sewn in, military creases.
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Post by foxholetom on Mar 12, 2008 23:30:43 GMT -5
I agree with what Tar posted. I've recently come into possession of half a dozen HBT and OG107 utility jackets. WW2 HBT fatigues with black and gold U.S. Army, white and black name tape, while the soldier (same lot) had an OG107 uniform with neither that was clearly used for the field. WW2 fatigue jackets with all the flair and STARCHED.
The 1947 patterns are definitely "sharper" looking, no doubt about it, but it seems like a lot of guys like to wear the WW2 pattern because it was the "old" pattern, ie, it looks saltier.
When I get back to NC I'm going to post pictures of all my recent 1950s fatigue purchases.
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Post by foxholetom on Mar 16, 2008 17:18:04 GMT -5
I know I've said I'll post pictures, I've been sick as a dog. I'll get to it this week, I have quite a few to post. Also, one of my current projects is going forward....uniform of someone in....the Berlin Brigade, 1952. Below is a cover from newsweek, September 1952 that I'm basing the uniform off. www.berlin-brigade.de/misc/imp56.jpg |
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Post by mkmilitaria on Jun 23, 2008 23:53:18 GMT -5
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cvn69
New Recruit
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Post by cvn69 on Jul 3, 2008 19:47:58 GMT -5
A few years ago I purchased an I.D'd duffle bag full of late war uniforms. It had two sets of 43 pattern HBT's (shirts had the pockets stiched flat) and only one 47 pattern shirt, plus two pair of og107 fatigues (one pair of these had holes in them, patched with HBT material). The 43 HBTs and the OG107's had the name tapes, but the 47 pattern did not. Luckily, the russett combat boots came with the bag as well.
When we do timelines, I wear the 47 patterns, just so the public can see a different uniform from the WWII guys, but you would be better off portraying a combat soldier in the 43 HBTs. I work with a guy that was a medic in Korea and he says that he never had a set of fatigues other than the 43 patterns and I showed him all of the fatigues that I own. The same goes with my old VFW post quartermaster who was in the 19th Inf. of the 24th Div.-he only wore the WWII pattern stuff.
Phil
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Post by etooloperator on Aug 27, 2008 15:28:40 GMT -5
Just an update, for anyone who is following this thread still: I went with a set of ORIGINAL WWII HBTs. Salty as hell, knees torn to shreds. These will have to double for my WWII Pacific impression as money's tight these days -- in other words, I won't be outfitting the shirt with any late war flair.
Thanks for all the info, guys...
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