Parkas used in Korea?

[sdfoster]

I'm still waiting on my copy of Shelby Stanton's Uniforms book to arrive, but perhaps some of you here can help me understand the following parkas used in Korea? What I am using here are my assumptions, so feel free to correct me.

M1951 parka - used toward the of the Korean War? Is this the same thing as a fishtail parka?

M1947 parka (greatcoat style parka)

'1943' parka (OD pullover parka with pile liner)- used until replaced by the M1951?

WWII greatcoat-style parka (reversible exterior shell, pile liner)

WWII Ski parka (reversible pullover white and OD, just a cotton shell, no pile liner) - limited use in Korea?

[jonprince]

Speaking purely in terms of Army issue (a I know bone about USAF)

'M1951' and 'Fishtail' parka's are the same thing, though later parka designs were also 'Fishtail' I think, so 'M1951' is safest term to use. You also had the 'M1948' which was like the 'M1951' in design, tough obviously earlier and was modified and improved to become the 'M1951'.

M1947 Parka, yes, think we are on the same wave-length also called 'Overcoat type' paraka, green cotton shell, pile liner waist belt etc.? Used from WW2 and fairly standard early Korean War cold weather clothing for Army troops?

M1943 Parka, sorry no idea what that is.

WW2 Greatcoat style Parka, reversible with pile liner, again think we are on the same page, also known as 'snowshoe troops' parka, reversible cotton shell, pileliner but later fairly uncommon and rare? Did see some use.

WW2 Ski Parka's did get used early on, though were apparently for rear-areas and non-combat troops due to shortages of other types, often seen in use with fur hood facing removed (if it had one), which I think was an official Army Mod. as it's a pain and makes laundering difficult, i have one here that'sbeen opened up , fur removed and properly re-stitched not simply cut off as the average G.I. would have done if he had to.

Stantons book is cracking, lots of info on winer kit, nice late war size/issue scales aswell which come in handy.

[sdfoster]

Thanks for the reply!

What I am calling the M1943 parka is listed as this in the 1946 QM catalog:
(2 components)

Parka, Field, Pile
Stock No. 55-P-4130 Large
55-P-4131 Medium
55-P-4132 Small
This parka is used in regions of extreme cold. It is not windproof and therefore is always worn, hair side in, underneath the olive-drab cotton field parka. The two parkas are worn as a unit and are ordinarily put on and taken off together without removing one from the other.
Wt: 3.19 lbs Spec: PQD 369B

Parka, Field, Cotton, OD
Stock No. 55-P-4103 Large
55-P-4104 Medium
55-P-4105 Small
Parka, field, cotton, od, is well adapted to windy and cold climates. It is used as part of the windproof outer shell in climates which are too severe for the field jacket. The parka is a long-skirted jacket with a hood, with closures at the neck, wrists, and waist. When closed, these make it very warm; but they may be opened to permit adequate ventilation of the clothing when the weather is milder. There is a large pouch-pocket on the front which has two openings. The parka is often worn over the pile parka in extremely cold weather, and over other types of clothing in less severe weather.
Wt: 2.44 lbs Spec: PQD 376

[pop401k]

Good news gentlemen!! I just scored a M-1943 overcoat/parka from Ebay. It's the long, overcoat length parka the Marines wore at the Frozen Chosin.

[stu]

Can anyone identify this parka for me?

[foxholetom]

Here is the breakdown of parka development as I understand it. Note, I will only give an "M" designation when I am sure it had such. Otherwise the year is strictly for reference, and not an actual designation that I am aware of. The area of liners for WW2 parkas is still a little unclear to me as well.

1941 reversible parkas made with wolf fur trim on hood, and without.
1942 reversible parka with wolf fur trim. Both the 1941 and 1942 versions of this occasionally pop up in photographs in Korea.
1943 non reversible parka with wolf fur trim. This had a pile liner, and is what Foster is referring to as an M1943 parka. However, to my knowledge it was merely designated as "parka, olive drab". Used alongside later parkas in Korea.
M1948 parka with fur trimmed hood. Had a button in liner, and featured a small pocket on the left sleeve. I believe it had a fishtail.
M1951 parka. Replaced the M1948. The classic "fishtail" parka. Featured a shell with a non lined hood, button in liner, and seperate wool, fur lined hood that buttoned into the shell. Also had matching trousers and trouser liners.
M1965 parka. Parka shell without hood, quilted liner, and seperate hood with artificial fur (with the exception of VERY early production).
I believe there was a parka produced in the 1980s, but am not 100% sure.
Gortex parka and trouers. I am not 100% sure what the original liner intended for this was, however, it does have the capability of attaching a fur trim to the hood, and it is intended as the outer layer in intermediate cold/snow, not for rain as commonly used.

With the parka type overcoats, I know there is a style produced during WW2, at the end of the war, and through the end of Korea. Both used during Korea, preferably by troops in categories B and C I believe.

I have even come across a soldier wearing a WW2 melton wool overcoat in Korea. Damned supply system, making it so hard for reenactors.

I hope that has helped, and not hindered.

[Chicommie]

Hey Foxholetom,
In the succession of parka's you listed, I was wondering where
the parka I own fell in...according to the label that is sewn into
the inside right lower pocket it states:

OVERCOAT, PARKA TYPE, WITH PILE LINER
NEW YORK QUARTERMASTER
PROCUREMENT AGENCY
PATTERN DATE: 21 JULY 1947

Then the date that paticular parka was made. Is there even such a thing as a M1947 Parka? Is this a 'reenactor' designation or a US Govt. designation, plus the pile liner is snow white, (never issued item) it snaps to the parka itself and lines the
hood as well.
regards, Patrick Hubble

[jonprince]

stu said:

Can anyone identify this parka for me?

I think it might be Canadian issue, can't remember the designation though

[etooloperator]

chicommie said:

Hey Foxholetom,
In the succession of parka's you listed, I was wondering where
the parka I own fell in...according to the label that is sewn into
the inside right lower pocket it states:

OVERCOAT, PARKA TYPE, WITH PILE LINER
NEW YORK QUARTERMASTER
PROCUREMENT AGENCY
PATTERN DATE: 21 JULY 1947

Then the date that paticular parka was made. Is there even such a thing as a M1947 Parka? Is this a 'reenactor' designation or a US Govt. designation, plus the pile liner is snow white, (never issued item) it snaps to the parka itself and lines the
hood as well.
regards, Patrick Hubble

I have this same "Parka-Type Overcoat", although the tag in mine is long gone (as well as a few of the large front buttons). I am curious as well, is there such a designation as M1947, or is it just the "Parka-Type Overcoat"?

I'm thinking Foxholetom should be able to answer this, because he is wearing one JUST LIKE MINE in his "Winter Clothing Display" Thread, linked below.

theforgottenwar.proboards61.com/index.cgi?board=uande&action=display&thread=1186690858

Just another note: There are NUMEROUS photos in the Stanton book of this coat being worn -- including, of course, the sketch that Foxholetom re-created in photographs.

[Woodard]

White soft liner with wool sleeves? Yea, I've got one that I seem to recall having an Air Force label in it. Abshire has a coat that seems to be the same cut, but the liner is dark brown and it's 45' dated.

[etooloperator]

woodard said:

White soft liner with wool sleeves? Yea, I've got one that I seem to recall having an Air Force label in it. Abshire has a coat that seems to be the same cut, but the liner is dark brown and it's 45' dated.

Yeah, a lot of the ones in the Shelby Stanton book look like mine, but with the dark brown liner you mentioned. I'm at work so I can't reference pages in the book.

I'll be wearing mine at the Feb. event...it's bulky and heavy but WARM!

[stu]

jonprince said:

I think it might be Canadian issue, can't remember the designation though

Ok, I wasn't sure since this is the only Canadian parka I've seen so far:



and it has pockets up on the chest unlike that photo.

[foxholetom]

What I'm wearing is a parka-type overcoat. I believe its official designation is "overcoat, parka-type". The pattern is dated 1947. That is the date of the pattern, not the designation. Going off the tag Chicommie posted, I would support that "M1947" is a reenactorism/collectorism. I believe as the parka-type overcoat evolved, they simply updated the pattern, however, did not see fit to designate each pattern with a separate designation.

Very cool on the Canadian parka.

Also, something to bear in mind as far as "what was used".

8th Army had existing stocks of supplies in Japan. A lot of this was obsolete clothing, including of all things, M41 field jackets. Stocks ranged from priority items like pile liners, to items issues on an emergency basis only, like M41 jackets. Obsolete clothing was issued as necessary, until exhausted, which is why the M41s, the occasional wool overcoat, etc, appear in photographs.

What mandated emergency issue? Not having your size in stock. So if you were an odd size, you might be SOL on the good clothing.

[stu]

Does anyone have any pics of the M41 in use? I haven't seen it before (although I haven't looked much either).

[sdfoster]

stu said:

Does anyone have any pics of the M41 in use? I haven't seen it before (although I haven't looked much either).

I know there is a picture in Shelby Stanton's book on uniforms in the Korean War. That is the only picture I know of at the moment, but I am sure others here have seen more photographs. In there they also show a few WWII "Tanker" jackets (Winter Combat Jacket) being worn as well, though mostly by officers it seems.

[foxholetom]

Something to bear in mind with using both the Stanton book, and the other good photo reference "The War in Korea", part of the GI Series....when they write these books, they have a page limit, and a photograph limit. I guarantee that Stanton looked through several thousand photos, at the least, before deciding which photographs to include. He includes a single picture of a soldier wearing an M41 jacket (with goldenlites no less), does that mean it was the only one he saw? Probably not. However, he only needed to include the one for the purposes of his book.

For reference, in either the Stanton book or the GI Series one, there is an officer wearing an M41 with a name tape on it, and there is the famous photo of the KMAG soldiers retreating from Seoul, also wearing M41s.

Items like the M41 were issued on a purely emergency basis, based on size. "We don't have your size for either pile liners or M43 field jackets. We do have these old field jackets, so you'll have to make do until supply can get you one."

This issue happened when you arrived in theater, so it could be quite a while before your unit supply caught up and issued you proper cold wearing clothing.

[pop401k]

Brrrr....

You'd freeze yer cahones off with just that little windbreaker...maybe under your wool overcoat, if you had one.

I remember my Dad saying he wore everything he owned during the Bulge; and Korea was twice as cold!

[foxholetom]

Pop,
I've thought the same thing since I read about it. If all you had was an M41, you'd be SOL.