Woodard
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Post by Woodard on Aug 2, 2007 17:27:04 GMT -5
These are from "Red China's fighting Hordes" by Robert B. Rigg, published in 1951. It appears to be a fairly informative book if you can get past the racism and obvious bias.   (notice that he has a UD42 Submachine gun, a Thompson or PPSh would be much more common)  The bandoleer in the summer rifleman pic would generally be worn in the winter as well. The Chinese could barely manage to feed everyone, having summer and winter equipment was not a possibility. Many Chinese soldiers held onto their winter gear throughout the summer in the fear that there may not be enough winter gear to go around when the weather got cold again.  The "new style cap" should be a Mao cap, and the canvas and rubber "Chuck Taylor" shoes aren't shown. Most photos show no insignia of any kind, and removing the red star from the cap was part of the fiction of "Chinese Volunteers" versus "Chinese Army".  This is the ideal, nearly all Chinese units were chronically understrength. Also note that during the 50's "tommy gun" was a generic term for submachine guns. Thompsons were common, even manufactured in China prior to WW2, but "tommy gun" means any old Submachine gun. |
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Post by Glen K on Aug 2, 2007 19:13:58 GMT -5
VERY interesting, thanks for posting these! Accoding to these it does look like a lot of WWII-ish Soviet gear and weaponry could be used...
Does it give any indication as to what type of pack it would have been?
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Woodard
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Post by Woodard on Aug 2, 2007 19:52:12 GMT -5
From what I've seen, it may very well be all of your possessions arranged in a square and tied with white cloth strips. They wore the packs crossing the Yalu, after that they seem to be very uncommon. I'll see if I can find some more info, mabey in some WW2 sources as they seem to be the same pack. Usually it just looks like a black or khaki cloth square with three white cloth strips tied around it vertically, sometimes one or two horizontally, and shoulder straps of the same material, tied together across the chest.
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ben
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Post by ben on Aug 3, 2007 13:34:56 GMT -5
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Woodard
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Post by Woodard on Aug 3, 2007 13:59:06 GMT -5
My Bandoleer is already in the mail. I couldn't afford the uniform just yet, mabey next paycheck. I bought a white Mao cap from www.Asianideas.com and died it with khaki rit dye. I did a crappy job so it looks faded and beat up. |
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Post by Glen K on Aug 3, 2007 18:10:37 GMT -5
Another question, please forgive my ignorance: what color did their uniforms tend to be? Soviet brown/green? Chinese khaki? That wierd blue?
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Woodard
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Post by Woodard on Aug 3, 2007 19:05:12 GMT -5
The uniforms switched in 48 or 49 from that weird blue color to khaki (tan khaki, not European OD Khaki). Most of the uniforms would have been Khaki in Korea. Around 52 they switched to an OD color officially called "Yenan Green" after the PLA's home province. Staff officers and such may have had green before that. Web gear, such as canteen straps and satchels would be khaki, changing to green around 1968 or 1969. This is a pic of a 1952 style jacket www.chinabadge.com/upLoad/20051215145525.jpgSummer uniforms varied a lot within units as far as details of cut, winter uniforms tended to be the same for a given unit at a given time, but varied from unit to unit and winter to winter. As for the packs: There is no pack. It is a blanket that has been folded a specific way and tied with white cloth tape. As ridiculously unprofessional as it is, I'm including a picture from one of those 12" "collector action figures". Basically if he was wearing khaki he'd be cool for Korea. but the pics show how a blanket or greatcoat can be folded into a Chinese style pack. i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/BrenWoodard/Bugler01.jpgi154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/BrenWoodard/Bugler09.jpg |
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Post by Glen K on Aug 4, 2007 6:13:06 GMT -5
Dude, don't worry about it.  When it's all you've got, it's all you've got. I'm more curious as to why no one has written any good reference material about the soldiers and equipment involved in the only time post-WWII that superpowers have been at war. For that matter, it's pretty helpful to see that, actually. If I have time, I might try using that photo as a reference and figure out exactly how they did it. I do, however, thank you most gratefully; with these references and the available repros, I don't really have an excuse NOT to have an opfor mannequin when I set up my Korean War display.... |
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Woodard
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Posts: 379
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Post by Woodard on Aug 4, 2007 13:10:06 GMT -5
Good idea, I enjoy collecting enemy stuff but I'm awfully white to wear it around the public. I don't think I'd ever have any desire to wear NK stuff. One year we had a dead Japanese dummy thrown over a log bunker, but I personally think a mannequin (or two) is more tasteful. i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/BrenWoodard/scan0007-1.jpgThe one picture of Chinese troops wearing packs. Most other pictures just show a satchel containing bare essentials. |
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Post by foxholetom on Aug 4, 2007 22:44:31 GMT -5
Now, the winter uniforms, did some units get Russian issue teleogreikas?
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Woodard
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Post by Woodard on Aug 5, 2007 8:22:58 GMT -5
It mostly looks like they got Chinese copies. The buttons are different, and the top buttons are done differently. I think a Soviet Telogrekia and Vatine Shovarii (matching pants) are the closest thing running for right now. You can get both postwar for pretty cheap, the pants should be OK as is, you may be able to replace and move around some buttons on the top. Front of Russia has all that stuff, plus a hat that looks like it may be OK for Chinese.
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Post by Glen K on Aug 9, 2007 23:14:55 GMT -5
Hooray! I just won a copy of this book on ebay. Thanks for the heads-up on how good a resource it is, Woodard.
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Post by Glen K on Aug 21, 2007 21:45:40 GMT -5
Folks, I just got my copy of this book, and it is very... interesting. As Woodard said, there's some fluff to wade through (it's one big chunk o' propaganda), but wading through it you can really pic up some awesome info. I haven't finished the entire thing yet, but I recommend it as a great piece for the all-to-small Korean War reference shelf. And Woodard: Now I know where you got your avatar...  |
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Post by foxholetom on Aug 21, 2007 23:22:16 GMT -5
Looking at things, it seems like the winter uniform is actually easier to put together than the summer uniform? I know I'd much rather do a winter event to use all my fun cold weather items.
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When it's all you've got, it's all you've got. I'm more curious as to why no one has written any good reference material about the soldiers and equipment involved in the only time post-WWII that superpowers have been at war. For that matter, it's pretty helpful to see that, actually. If I have time, I might try using that photo as a reference and figure out exactly how they did it.
