army HBTs or p44 trousers.

[m1steelpot]

I've heard that the usmc did indeed use army hbt trousers. I've seen in some pictures where it is noticeable that they are wearing p44 trousers due to the 2 buttons on the side cargo pockets. But sometimes it's hard to tell. I've encountered some pictures where you see behind the marines and there isn't the usual grenade back pocket. Did marines take off the grenade back pocket or are they wearing army trousers? There are also times where the blouse is covering the top of the pocket flaps making it hard to tell.

So can any of you guys help with this a little? I'm putting my marine impression (Naktong-Seoul) and not sure if I should keep my army hbts trousers or get p41s or the p44s.

thanks,

[redjoshman]

I posted this on another forum, hopefully this will be of use to you:

Jun 7, 2011 15:49:40 GMT -5 redjoshman said:

Here is a break-down of the main types of Non-Camouflage Utilities used by the Marine Corps during the Korean Conflict:

P1941 Utilities-Perfect for the whole war. Though they are for whatever reason not the most common utilities being used by the 1st Provisional Marine Brigade at Pusan. However by Inchon they were the most common utilities, and this would remain true for the rest of the war.

P1944 Utilities-These are the most common utilities being used by the 1st Provisional Marine Brigade at Pusan for whatever reason. However they do see a decline after Inchon. The utilities remain present, but not overly common for the rest of the war. Beginning in the "Helicopter War" phase of the war you start seeing a resurgence of the uniform(especially the trousers) because of there cargo carry capacity(I guess, though it might just be random). By the "Outpost War" phase they have become common place again, however the P1941 Utilities are still the most common.

P1947 Utilities-These are extremely plentiful in "State-Side" photographs of Marines that I have examined. However in photographs of Marines in "The Fleet" they rarely pop up for whatever reason. I think I have a couple photographs of their use but they are definitely in the great minority. I would recommend using these utilities only if you are portraying a unit gearing up to go to Korea.

US Army HBTs-These pop up rarely, not as rarely as P1947 Utilities, but still rarely. I have mostly only seen the trousers, however full uniform sets do pop up. However I must state that instances are in the minority and that The best bet is to go with with either the P1941 Utilities or in some specific instances/occasionally P1944 Utilities.


The Pre-March of 1952(aka pre-large scale use of Flak Vests) guestimates from examining many photographs in my collection(present in downloads, scans, and books) of troops. The Post-March of 1952(aka post large scale use of Flak Vests) guestimates come from examing photos of them not only in their Flak Jackets(you can generally tell what trousers they are wearing) but also when they are in their Bomb-Proofs or Relaxing(without their Flak Jackets) behind the MLR. Unlike in Vietnam, it seems that once one was a fair distance behind the MLR you stop seeing the Flak Jacket being worn.

-Josh

So yeah, get P41s or P44s. Preferably P41s.

-Josh

[gunnyred]

I was talking to a fellow Marine, a Korean War/Vietnam War veteran who's in the same Marine Corps League Det here and was asking him about photo's I've seen of Marines wearing not only U.S. Army uniforms but also the army's 'patrol' cap. I asked him "why?". He told me, "Our supply lines were so bad that getting proper Marine clothing was terrible. We had to wear army uniforms as replacements until the Marines re-supply line was reestablished. We wore army everything, covers, trousers, blouses, jackets, cold weather gear, hell, it was all the same to us." GySgt Steve Caballero, USMC 1950-1972

[m1steelpot]

Also another question pertaining to army sharing with marines. I seen many marines with canteen covers with the lift-the-dots. But can't tell if they are army 1910 covers or 2nd patt. marine (can usually tell by the stitching, but are too far away). I do see the "dog-eared" 3rd patt. marine cover mixed with these. Both show some equal dominance but mostly the 3rd patt.

[pop401k]

I think Korea was when the 782 gear began the process of "standardization". The new Dept. of Defense (1948?) started purchasing one kind of canteen covers for example, one style of pistol belt, one design of cartridge belt, one winter parka etc. Of course the Marines used up what they had in storage, and forever after complained about getting the Army's castoffs.

[redjoshman]

Jul 14, 2011 22:59:03 GMT -5 pop401k said:

I think Korea was when the 782 gear began the process of "standardization". The new Dept. of Defense (1948?) started purchasing one kind of canteen covers for example, one style of pistol belt, one design of cartridge belt, one winter parka etc. Of course the Marines used up what they had in storage, and forever after complained about getting the Army's castoffs.

Really?
How about the USMC M61 Gear, the P41 packs with post 1948 contract dates. I have seen and owned everything from USMC contract gloves, parkas, pile caps, ect from the late '40s through the '50s.

The whole entire USMC getting the armies cast-offs is a little bit over stated. For instance when the USMC switched over to the P53 utilities within a couple years the whole FMF was in them with P41s being a rarity only being seen in the hands of the odd NCO.

As to those canteen covers, those a run that USMC contracted in the '51/'52 time period because the decreasing stocks of P3 and P4 canteen covers. You start seeing them really start to pop up in '53 however throughout the war the WW2 P3 and P4 are the most common. The Korean war contract ones are the most common by Lebanon in 1958.

To drive the point home, the USMC had its own contract M1947 parkas and try going through pics of chosin and finding an Army version. I have even seen USMC contract M1951 parkas...

-Josh

[pop401k]

You're right...shouldn't have said 782 gear.

I should have said maybe "cold weather gear"?...It was a long process: for example black shoes for everybody didn't come until 1959 I think, but instead of 3-4 different parkas, they came up with the M-51 for issue to all US troops. That's the point I was trying to make, poorly I guess.

My buddy was issued an Army patrol cap...but didn't wear it because it was Army not USMC. He said none of the guys in his unit would wear them.

[m1steelpot]

www.allposters.com/-sp/Korean-Civilian-Shows-US-Marine-Dynamite-Cache-Near-Inchon-South-Korea-Posters_i7886633_.htm

Interesting picture. p44 Trousers bloused over his boondockers, BAR belt with an m1 rifle and some kind of tag? on the back of his helmet.