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Post by pop401k on Jan 6, 2008 15:50:00 GMT -5
Gentlemen...
I've been looking at some pics from the withdrawal "advance in a different direction" from Chosin.
Looks to me like all the Jarheads are wearing overcoats with hoods. I know this has to be some kind of cold weather gear, but I can't identify it.
Can anyone help? Are there any of these available to us mere mortals?
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Post by foxholetom on Jan 6, 2008 22:15:39 GMT -5
So far, what I have heard from other reenactors (sources, PLEASE), is that they wore the parka type overcoat (listed as the M1947 in some references). These are out there, even in large sizes (Abshire), and tend to be less than standard parkas.
I have one, and they are quite warm, but also bulkier than standard parkas.
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Post by pop401k on Jan 7, 2008 0:50:14 GMT -5
I don't know...the USMC pics seem to be longer than a (M-1947) parka...overcoat length. I'm not convinced that it's the M-1947. I have heard the 47 called the "Air Force" parka.
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Post by foxholetom on Jan 7, 2008 6:29:09 GMT -5
I know the air force had parka type overcoats contracted to them, but the Army contracted them as well. Stanton's book is pretty clear that the Army used them.
One possibility...winter clothing was a problem in the early winter campaigns, so much so that even 1942 melton overcoats appear from time to time on soldiers.
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Post by John Abshire on Jan 7, 2008 8:17:55 GMT -5
The only issue I have to say to that is, my Parka is dated 1945, which would make it newer than the 1947 Parka, so whats the deal with that?
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Post by pop401k on Jan 7, 2008 10:55:58 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. Pre-1950...I'm just saying that the ususal parka length is mid-thigh to maybe knee length. All the Marines are wearing garments(with hoods) that all go well below the knee; same as overcoats. Might be something that was developed in WWII for duty in the Allutian Islands and re-issued to the the USMC in a crisis...I don't know. But to my eye, they don't look like the 1947 "Air Force" parka Maybe its one of the "new" parkas that was rushed to the fighting, even while it was going on(ref: One Bugle, No Drums)...  |
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Post by tar00 on Jan 9, 2008 13:18:13 GMT -5
They are WWII "parka-type overcoats."
These came out around 1943 or 4 and you see staff officers sometimes wearing them in WWII photos, especially in Italy.
There was also an M1948 parka shell in the inventory, (looks very much like the M1951), but these just were not widely contracted until hostilities broke out, so not available in the same quantity in 1950.
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Post by foxholetom on Jan 9, 2008 18:32:18 GMT -5
Tar,
I was looking at pictures of the 7th Infantry Division landing at Hungnam in late 1950, and one of the battalion officers had a reversible WW2 parka.
The army also had surplus "olive drab parkas" which I believe come out in 1943 or so. I have in my collection, and according to the Stanton book was used in Korea until exhausted.
I also saw on e-bay the other week, one of the WW2 parka type overcoats you describe. Good price too, but sadly, I had no money to buy it.
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Post by jonprince on Jan 11, 2008 18:16:20 GMT -5
The USMC Parka is indeed very similar to the Army Parka type Overcoat, a green cotton outer with removable alpaca liner (either full or shoulders down with hood section sewn in permenantly, both as you find with the Army versions). The main differences are that it lacks a waist belt (has waist abjustment button tabs instead, though I've seenthis on some 'Army types aswell). It is indeed longer than the army type (this can be seen at Chosin, many Marines have Parka's almost down to their ankles and not just cos their short kids!) from the top to the bottom of the lower patch pockets their largely the same animal as the Army version but the Marine type has an extra 1-1 1/2 feet of material to give it a longer overall length. The main difference though is that their an absolute son of a b#tch to find these days! Though I am in the U.K. which makes things a lot harder, in the time it took me to find one I got 3 of the Army version, plus an M1948 and 2 M1950's plus it cost me three figures, overall about 3 years of dedicated searching. I love it to bits though, it's ratty and worn but hangs on the back of my bedroom door and is one of the favourite items of my collection. They continued in use for much of the war so combined with overall lower numbers made their just damn hard to find. Some Marines from what I've read did use the shorter Army version at Chosin as they found it a little less restrictive (my Marine one is size medium and it still comes down to my knees at 6' 6", though it can have the front flaps held up with press stus to make it easier to march in). Plus off-course you have Army and Marine elements mixed in some pics. and you can often see the difference in the lengths. You do see Army personnel, usually officers, wearing the long type but whether they obtained this themselves or actually got issued it is open to debate. From what I've seen so far, it seems to largely be the case that the short version was indeed 'Army' issue whilst the longer was specifically 'Marine' issue, why, I have no idea! Perhaps Marines get colder knees or the Corps just wanted to get one up on the Army and boast about the length of their Parka, cos you know wht they say about the length of a mans Parka don't you!  I do love the winter kit though, I'd be happy just collecting Parkas, pile-caps and Shoepacs! At the end of the day though it was the men inside the things that fought, suffered and made history. When I look at my Parka hanging there I think about all the things I've read about those men and how they struggled and sacrificed so much but still get largely ignored by the public.  |
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Woodard
Global Moderator 
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Post by Woodard on Jan 28, 2008 8:25:27 GMT -5
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Post by jonprince on Feb 1, 2008 20:34:53 GMT -5
Oustanding, thanks for posting that up. At least one museum dedicates space to the subject, though if anyone, you'd expect the Marine Corps to mention it. Those lads added a proud and remarkable page to the history of the Corps. That mannequin on page 8/9 looking at what I assume will eventually be a letter of photograph sends a shiver down my spine.
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cco23i
Corporal 
"Say, AAAAAAAAH"
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Post by cco23i on Feb 16, 2008 17:51:44 GMT -5
Hey guys, at the sportsman's warehouse website they have the navy's parka for about 199.00.
Scott
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Post by jonprince on Feb 17, 2008 17:53:43 GMT -5
You may want to check exactly what pattern it is though as the U.S. Navy issued a similar long, green lined parka but the pattern was different to both the 'Army' and 'Marine' issues, you see them sometimes listed as 'Deck' Parkas and there seems to be two versions, one has (working from memory) a single chest patch pocket on the left side, often stamped 'USN', lacks the two waist level slash pockets and I can't remember if it has lower patch pockets or not . Will try and post pics. of the 'Marine' version when I get home and if I can drag one out, the 'Army' version for comparison. |
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Woodard
Global Moderator
Posts: 379
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Post by Woodard on Feb 27, 2008 11:45:39 GMT -5
Found this in a Marine Report on Cold Weather Operations dated 3 Feb 1951. I'm posting it since it specifically mentions the "Parka type overcoat" as being what was issued.  Reccomended substitutions for next winter   |
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Post by jonprince on Feb 27, 2008 13:44:17 GMT -5
USMC type Parka of the type most commonly seen at Chosin, will try and put up some better/comparison pics. tomorrow. i155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/tallerthanbetty/USMC%20Parka/parkafront.jpgi155.photobucket.com/albums/s302/tallerthanbetty/USMC%20Parka/Parkaback.jpgType is very similar in design to the 'Army', 'Overcoat', M1943/M1946 type. Consists of a cotton shell and removable 'Alpaca' liner. Main diferences are overalll length, Marine Crops typeis longer from thebottom of the lower pockets down to the hem and the Parka outer has two button waist adjustment tabs rather than the wiastbelt of the Army type, though I have also seen Army issue Parkas with buttons instead of a belt. Bottom of the skirt also has two poppers that alow the frnt to be held up against the side seams French Army style for easier movement, studs can be seen in pics.. |
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Post by girene on Nov 19, 2010 8:12:25 GMT -5
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Post by gunnyred on Apr 11, 2011 17:04:36 GMT -5
well guys, all i can say, when i was in, we got whatever supply had in inventory. we didn't care what the nomenclatue was, or who had the contract, as long as it kept us warm. now, there's some good info here, and i'm just starting to catch up on the Korean War. I've spent time in Korea, and it's down right cold!!! My thinking is this, now, this is only me, but if it's a black and white pic, and from 15 feet, who can tell? I try to get my boys as close to accurate, but in todays economy, I don't want anyone going broke for a parka.
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Post by m1steelpot on Dec 2, 2011 17:25:01 GMT -5
So what is the conclusion on the parka? I'm still a bit confused on which parka to look for.
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Post by pop401k on Dec 2, 2011 18:15:18 GMT -5
It's a Marine issue item. It is very similar, but not the same as, the M1947-8 Army parka. It is a little longer, it does not have a belt, it does have take-up tabs at the waist, and it does have snaps to open the front legs for marching (think of the French Foreign Legion in the desert). Good luck finding one.
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Post by undertoker on May 19, 2013 16:57:38 GMT -5
M47 parkas are a lot more affordable than the legendary M48 and the more common M51 parkas
They were used in Korea as well, so if I were kitting out rein actors I'd buy M47s , they are authentic and ten a penny
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